The Perfect Mode of Being Jonathan Pageau 156


Video Creator’s Channel Jordan B Peterson

author link

So Today, I Have The Great Pleasure Of

speaking with Jonathan Pagio, whom I know primarily as a thinker who’s a carver of Orthodox icons that are absolutely beautiful. I have one in my house of Saint Michael and the Dragon and an increasingly prominent Youtuber. Prominent among intellectual Youtubers. I would say essentially as particularly those who are interested in religious and philosophical and artistic ideas and Jonathan and I have been talking back and forth for I would think about six or seven years now eh we met in 2015. Yeah it’s my time it’s crazy time flies.

Its Crazy Thats For Sure So

I I we haven’t spoken for two years. Maybe yeah We saw each other. I think when you booked him out and you came to Montreal for a little event and I picked you up at the airport that was the last time we. saw each other Yeah, it’s a while a lot of water under the bridge that’s right indeed and in your case literally yes exactly Jonathan Jonathan’s house was flooded out that was when it was in 2019 , but we just moved back into our house. This Christmas and so it was a long kind of a long thing.

It Lasted A Very Long Time So

and are you in your house right now. Yes I am in my my house all fixed up and so we’re really enjoying it we’re happy to be back. I bet. It must have been unbelievably dislocating to be flooded like that your whole basement filled with water. If I remember correctly yeah exactly it was a dyke broke in the in the city and you know I think as thousands of people got evacuated within an hour and so for my kids especially.

  • jonathan
  • bishop
  • met
  • talk
  • talking

It Was My Kids And Even My Wife.

It was it was a little bit of a trauma because it was water. We could see the water coming and there were cops and and you know all these firemen and everything and so. It was a pretty intense moment Yeah and where where were you living. When your house was underwater.

We Moved Around We Lived At My Parents.

Then we rented a place then we had to move and so we ended up living in three places during the about a year and a half that we were gone um so but it was a it. It was one of those things where you know we say symbolism happens you know a lot of the things that even you talk about or that I talk about just manifested themselves. This problem of the dyke and the the idea of you know corruption or inattention to the situation and then thinking you’re safe when in fact you’re not aware of what’s what’s kind of looming on the margins and and so for me it was a real learning experience. I hope that I’ve come out of it stronger and more more attentive.

Lets Say Yeah Well.

I hope so too. I mean we all hope that we come out of unpleasant experiences stronger than when we went in. Although that isn’t always the case. It’s the case when things are functioning optimally and when you’re fortunate and courageous and I suppose as honest as you can be but fortunate definitely ranks high among all of those necessary um preconditions for successful recovery.

I Would Say Yeah And I Have

to say that I am we are I’m so grateful to. See you back online You know that I know you’ve heard this but there have been thousands of people thinking about you praying for you and really rooting for you and you know I actually saw Tammy last year. I when I went to bring your icon and and I just remember just feeling helpless and and you know she was like would you go to Russia and I was like I’ll go to Russia. I’ll go see Jordan in Russia. It didn’t seem like it was a reasonable thing to do and and it’s probably better it didn’t happen, but we’ve definitely been praying for you and routing for you and thinking about you Jordan.

You Know I Appreciate That A

lot and I’m I’m back to some degree. I would say I still think I’m running at about five percent so yeah and that’s partly why I was. concerned about talking to you today and we’re generally discuss things that are relatively deep and it’s still difficult for me to go deeply into anything that’s happening to me because it’s so unbelievably awful and it’s it’s it’s been hard on my faith. I would say you know and it’s my book is coming out in my new book. I should show it to you I just got recognized yesterday that’s awesome to order it’s in it’s unbelievable that you wrote that during all of this I can’t believe that when you say you’re running at five percent.

I Think That Your Five Percent Is Is

pretty close to the hundred percent of most people yeah well. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it’s five percent for me and getting the book was actually somewhat of a traumatic experience. I would say because it reminded me. Like it’s a it’s a It’s a it’s a concrete reminder of everything that’s happened over the last three or four years and it all things that I found very difficult to process both on the social front and on the let’s say biological health front um so I was reading oddly enough. I I got a book sent to me by Bishop Baron.

  • kind shock talking mean religious
  • yes exactly jonathan
  • religious philosophical artistic ideas jonathan
  • ideas jonathan talking forth think
  • great pleasure speaking jonathan pagio

The First Draft Of A Book And

it’s written by a couple of professors. It’s called Jordan Peterson God and Christianity. The search for a meaningful life by Dr Christopher Caxor and Dr Matthew Pretzek word on fire Institute to Catholic response to my Biblical series and hopefully they won’t be too upset about me talking about it today, but I won’t talk about it that much the book itself it was rather a shock to me. They’re at Loyola Marymount University and it was kind. of a shock to me to see them talking about my I mean, These are religious scholars talking about my Biblical series but I think people are just people don’t a lot of people didn’t understand and I could see it in my react with the way people were reacting to your Biblical studies the Biblical interpretations.

People Didnt Understand How Is It

that he we can barely get 100 people in our church and Jordan has a million people listening to him kind of struggle to to get through these passages and do it in a very improvisational kind of existential way and and to me it’s funny because I mean I think I I have I have a deep affection for your the way that you approach thing and I and obviously we connect together in the way we think and so to me it was. Like this is what you guys should have been doing for a while is trying to understand how it is that this stuff is talking about reality and not just a bunch of arbitrary things that you need to believe or that you need to kind of attend to and and because these stories they really are telling us about the structure of being and so I think that that’s the way that you approached it and and that’s why people are resonating to what you’re, saying because they’re like finally someone can can can help us make sense of these stories that we’re somehow strangely attracted to or frustrated by or disgusted by or whatever it is. But there’s this push and pull with these stories um and so so I think that I’ve seen a lot of Christians listen to your Biblical talks and of course sometimes you. say things and they’re like okay that’s way off the rails and then other times you say things and they can’t believe the insight that you’re able to to pierce and so so I I’m not not all surprised that Catholic scholars would would kind of look at what you were doing and we all hope that you’re going to do more of that for sure yes well. I would like to I’m thinking about trying to attempt a book on exodus and lecture two lectures as well.

Although I Wouldnt Say That Im

in any shape to do that yet um I’m but it’s a dream. Let’s say I mean I’m pretty much completely non-functional For the first three or four hours of the day. I get up and I can barely stand up and I go have a sauna for an hour and often sleep during that period. time and then at the same time. I cook breakfast.

I Use An Air Cooker And Then I

go walk for anywhere between seven and ten miles, and even though I can by the time I get out of the house. I’m dizzy as as can be and it’s difficult to stand up, but after about a mile or two. I get my legs under me to some degree and then by two O’clock. I’m kind of functional and although extremely anxious and then um I’m able to do a little bit of work and often to sit down at four O’clock. My mind seems sharp enough.

Although My Memory Isnt Good.

I can’t bring things to mind like I used to which is quite distressing and I have very little emotional resilience and I’m worried for that reason about the release of this book. I mean I I just. Did a times interview London Times interview that was really yeah! We followed that I’d say it’s that frustrating it’s it’s it’s.

I Mean Its Funny Because This

you know again it was like the same stories are playing out again. This person goes after you and then it just turns against that person and and it’s just she’s exposed for for the fraud that she was being and during that interview, and so you know I think in the it’s so strange that it keeps happening over and over. I mean I really decided not to do mainstream interviews now for a good while because I’ve. It seems to me that I’ve gone to the well of public sympathy so to speak enough times and that if this happens to me two or three more times.

Lets Say People Are Going To

rightly say you know how many times. Does it take for Peterson to learn and so I don’t want that to happen? I mean I’ve been you know I feel an obligation to my publishers obviously to talk about the book. Although that interview had virtually nothing to do with the book. We hoped that I would be able to discuss my health issues with someone who would treat them squarely and then I could ignore them from then on in but um that isn’t what happened um well it’s been it’s a sign of the politicized discourse like you you.

Its A Sign Of The Breakdown

that we’re going through that we see this capacity to have so entrenched aside that people are can’t doesn’t doesn’t matter what they do it doesn’t matter what they say they don’t feel like they’re responsible because in a way you’re the enemy and you know and it’s not just. You it’s other other it’s between different groups, but if you’re the enemy, then everything is justified and so well. I think a huge part of this is is driven by the desire to have an enemy yeah you know there’s it’s it’s very difficult to feel.


Jonathan Pagio is a carver of Orthodox icons that are absolutely beautiful . Pagio’s house was flooded out that was when it was in 2019 , but we just moved back into our house.& I would say essentially as particularly those who are interested in religious and philosophical and artistic ideas and Jonathan and I have been talking back and forth for I would think about six or seven years now eh we met in 2015. It’s crazy that’s for sure so I I we haven’t spoken for two years. We saw each other. We moved around we lived at my parents.& Then we rented a place then we had to move and so we ended up living in thre . We’re really enjoying it we’re happy to be back.& Yes I am in my my house all fixed up and so they’re really enjoyed it. I bet. It must have been unbelievably dislocating to be flooded like that your whole basement filled with water. It was a pretty intense moment Yeah and where…. Click here to read more and watch the full video