With Jocko Willink The Catastrophe of the Utopian Soviet State


Video Creator’s Channel Jordan B Peterson

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This Is Jocko Podcast Number 155 With Me Jocko

Willington On The island The dead were piling up In. The mission report the head of the convoy wrote AT 2 pm. On May 20th. I went to the island of Nazino with Commander Tsepkov. There was a terrible scramble people crowding and fighting around the bags of flour Dead bodies everywhere a hundred or more and Lots of people crawling about and crying give us bread boss.

  • cannibal
  • cannibalistic
  • bodies
  • flesh
  • mutilations

Its Been Two Days Since Weve

been given anything to eat. They’re trying to make us die of hunger and the cold. They told us that people had begun eating the dead bodies That they were cooking human flesh. The scene on the island was dreadful appalling On May 21st alone. The three health officers counted 70 additional dead bodies in five cases, they emphasized The liver the heart, the lungs and fleshy.

Part Of Bodies Had Been Cut Off

On. One of the bodies the head had been torn off along the, along with the male genital organs and part of the skin. These mutilations constitute strong evidence of cannibalistic acts. In addition, they suggest the existence of serious Psychopathologies. On.

The Same Day May 21St, The Deportees

themselves brought Us three individuals who had been caught with blood on their hands and holding human livers. Our examination of these three individuals did not reveal any extreme emaciation. And there’s an elderly local peasant woman who reported the things we saw People were dying everywhere they were killing each other. There was a guard named Costilla Viniq off a young fellow. He was courting a pretty girl who had been sent there.

He Protected Her One Day He Had To

be away for a while And. He told one of his comrades. take care of her But with all the people. The comrade couldn’t do much People caught the girl tied her to a tree caught off her breasts her muscles everything they could eat. They were hungry.

They Had To Eat When Costia Came Back.

She was still alive. He Tried to save her, but she had lost too much blood. She Died That was the kind of thing that happened. When you went along the island you saw flesh wrapped in rags Human flesh that had been cut and hung in the trees.

And That Right There Is From A

book called Cannibal Island by Nicolas Werth Who’s written books about Communism. I think his most famous is the Black Book of Communism and Cannibal Island specifically breaks down one of the small individual nightmares of the Soviet Gulags But the nightmare Was not small And It certainly was not. Specific. IT was a widespread and it was broad and IT was almost incomprehensible. And very little about it would be known or not for one man.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn Who Not Only Survived The

gulags, but lived on to write incredibly detailed and Very well researched two books about the gulags. Some of them were fictionalized Like a day in the life of Ivan Denisovich and for the for the good of the cause, but most comprehensively in his three-volume tome The Gulag Archipelago and This series is is a massive series and it’s been cut down to an abridged version that was actually approved by the author himself and The abridged version has just been re-released in Europe with a foreword by a man that I think Repopulated a to discuss that book and among other things. I’m sure a man That I needed to give an introduction to. Time. He was on this podcast, but now who needs no introduction whatsoever a man by the name of Dr.

Jordan B Peterson Jordan Thank You For Coming

back on How Does it rough beginning Chuckle Jesus Yeah, I Remember When I started listening to you. You would say something along the lines of that you know, we are quite capable of creating hell for ourselves as human beings and That Clearly that situation. I don’t know. I mean that’s that’s that’s Hell. Yeah, and Close enough Yeah, and it’s it’s.

Its Created By Us.

It’s created by Us, which I think is Obviously horrific and the Gulag Archipelago You know you talked about that book a lot and and one of the things that on that book hits you hard, obviously For me, there’s a book called about face by by Colonel. David Hackworth. I’m from a different World,. I guess that you in many ways The book that hit me hardest in my life was was that book about face and it’s.

Its One Of Those Things That When I

read it, I started putting it together as like things started to fit and I Remember that and I was wondering I guess from my perspective At what point did you Read The Gulag Archipelago. And at what point did you start to say Okay, there’s something really really important here for me to try and understand well, I read it back in the 1980s early I would say I’d read some Solzhenitsyn before that I read the Ley de Dave day in the life of Ivan Denisovich when I was about 13 or 14 and Then I read the Gulag Archipelago in my early 20s. When I was reading a lot of psychological material too. When I started reading Jung and Freud and the great clinicians and I was reading a fair bit about what had happened in Nazi Germany at the same time and also Victor Frankel’s met man’s Search for meaning and Solzhenitsyn. ‘s book is in some ways like an elaborated extension of Frankle, Frankle Of course described what happened to him in the Nazi concentration camps and it’s a relatively short.

Book And Its A Great Book

but Solzhenitsyn’s book is it’s? It’s much broader and and I would say deeper and the thing that affected me. Most particularly was the psychological take on the on the totalitarian states, you know I had been studying political science up to that point and The political science scientists and the economists who I would say were Under the sway of Marxist thinking although not nearly to the degree that they are now were convinced that the reason that people engaged in conflict was basically a consequence of Argumentation over resources, you know, it’s basically an economic argument and I never bought that it never made sense to me. I mean, obviously. There are circumstances where that’s true But it didn’t seem to be fundamentally the case like tribal warfare isn’t precisely about resources. It’s maybe it’s about territory, or maybe it’s about identity,.

  • additional dead bodies
  • bodies cut bodies
  • cooking human flesh scene island
  • begun eating dead bodies cooking
  • mutilations constitute strong evidence cannibalistic

But It Never Seemed To Me To Be

simply about resources partly because Well a resource is something that people value But It isn’t obvious why people value what they value and so it doesn’t solve the fundamental problem anyways. When I was reading Frankel and Solzhenitsyn, I started to more deeply understand the relationship between the individual and the atrocity and That’s. What I found. Most interesting was that Frankel’s claim and Solzhenitsyn’s claim as well that it was the moral corruption of the citizenry that allowed the totalitarian catastrophes to occur and that that in some sense was the responsibility of every individual in the system who looked the other way or who participated actively. I mean.

Even In The Gulag Camps Themselves They Were

almost all run by the prisoners. There wasn’t enough Administrative manpower to run the prison system without the cooperation so to speak the. prisoners So it is It is a surreal sort of hell where You imprison yourself and Solzhenitsyn’s fundamental claim and this was true for Frankel as well and also for Vaclav Havel, who eventually became president of Czechoslovakia,, or at least of the Czech Republic I don’t remember which you know, they believed that it was the individual proclivity to accept lies that Fostered the ability of tyrants to destroy the state and then Well, and that also led to complicitous with regards to all the absolute atrocities that were occurring in both the Nazi state in the and In. The Soviet state and I think that’s true when I read like I read Solzhenitsyn’s books and a lot of the books. I read about Nazi Germany-not as a victim and not as a hero, but as a perpetrator, you know Which I think it’s really important It’s.

Its Something Thats Really Important To Do

when you read history is that it’s easy to cast yourself as a victim. IT’s easy to cast yourself as the person who would have been heroic in the circumstance But. It’s also unbelievably useful to understand that there’s a good chance had you been in those Situations that you wouldn’t have been on the side of the good guys, you know, and that’s a terrible it’s really a terrible realization, but it’s It’s necessary realization Again just going back to this idea of what you get out of reading because people ask me how cuz I read books all the time on my podcast and what you just said it struck me as something that’s People have told me I read that book before, but I didn’t really get out of it what you got out of it. And when I heard. You read it? I said I was saying Wow How did I need to go reread this book And I think one of the key things is you looked at these books as you were not the victim But the perpetrator.

One Thing That When I Read Books, I

know I read a lot of books mostly about war for me. I Always think about the the peep. I don’t know we see myself as the Person that goes and heroically storms the beaches and survives. Every you know. In a war book there’s these people that get mentioned for a for up for a half a paragraph or for two sentences and They.

Sometimes They Dont Even Have A Name

because you know You’re the battalion commander storming the beach at Normandy. You don’t you you’re not gonna name every single person but for some reason and Maybe it’s. Just my experiences of being in combat when I read about that two sentences of that guy That that gets shot that gets killed that gets blown up. I completely Understand and relate to that person like I don’t just see it as me being the guy that is always winning and always doing okay and always surviving. I Feel and relate to those guys that didn’t and and part of that is just because of my friends that I lost in combat like those guys that they’re they’re people and and I think that Key thing of of reading it and going man every single person like when you read about these girl You’re talking about millions of people that were tortured died murdered.

Every One Of Those People.

Key word is people. Every one of those people is a person and to your point every single one of. Those executioner’s every single One of those murderers is Also a person, you know, there’s a great book called Ordinary Men.

Oh, Yeah.

We We reviewed that on this podcast. Right, right and so, you know It’s it’s it’s one of the greatest books written about what happened in the Second World War I think on the end of on the atrocity end because the author does such a lovely job of while it’s a strange way of putting it in this context, but you know it’s about this police battalion that was moved into Poland after the Germans went through and and occupied the country and they were there to Establish order like police do but also to participate in the mopping up.


Jocko Willington went to the island of Nazino with Commander Tsepkov . The mission report the head of the convoy wrote AT 2 pm.& On May 20th.& The dead were piling up In. The head had been torn off along the, along with the male genital organs and part of the skin.& These mutilations constitute strong evidence of cannibalistic acts.& In addition, they suggest the existence of serious Psychopathologies. On May 21st alone. The three health officers counted 70 additional dead bodies in five cases, they emphasized The liver the heart, the lungs and fleshy.& Part of bodies had been cut off On.& One of the bodies the head had . been torn away along the,. along the. with the . head . The head was torn off, along the . male genital . organs and the . skin. And there’s an elderly local peasant woman who reported the things we saw People were dying everywhere they were killing each other…. Click here to read more and watch the full video